MODESTY AFTER MARRIAGE: HOW THE MODESTY MENTALITY KILLS LIBIDO & SELF-ESTEEM









You waited 20+ Years to get married to have sex, you wore clothing that covered everything but you head, you were a good girl and boy, yet far too often when we elope we get stuck in the good girl and good boy mentality and cant allow ourselves to give into our sexual selves... Your goal as a husband and wife is to plain and simply do everything in your power to make your spouse perv out over your you! wear something tight fitting, attractive, a bit on the revealing side, and of course seduce the living *%#* out of each other on a daily basis! Of course i know this now, and our marriage couldn't be any happier, but for a long time I as his wife couldn't grasp this concept...




How Modesty Made Me Fat

This isn’t a story about how modest clothes allowed me to “let myself go” and conceal a growing figure. It’s not even a story about how wearing modest clothes kept my self-esteem at rock bottom and thrust me into a too-close relationship with Ben & Jerry. It’s a story about how modesty doctrines impacted my mind, in ways that had real, negative effects on my body. Modesty was one of the reasons my defining relationship with my body became whether or not I was “fat.” Modesty was one of the engines that pushed me into a full-blown eating disorder. It’s not just a dress code: it’s a philosophy, and it’s one that destroys young women, mentally and physically.

Modesty taught me that I was always on display. There was no occasion in which it was acceptable to be immodest. Not the beach, not at the pool with friends, not in my own backyard (sunbathing was out because a neighbor might glance over and see me). This took my normal self-consciousness as a teenage girl and amped it up to an impossible degree. I once had a bee fly down my (acceptably loose) shirt and, in flailing around to get it out, had a family member comment that I’d just “flashed” my own grandfather. I was horrified for the rest of the week. That’s not normal. The normal order of priorities is getting dangerous animals out of your clothing first, and then worrying about making your own relatives perv on you second. Not so with the modesty doctrine. I should have let it sting me, apparently. Getting stung was the lesser risk.

Modesty was not just about dress. It was also about moving like a lady. Knees together, butt down, breasts in, arms down. It is impossible to get physically fit while adhering to ladylike movements only. You might be able to run, but only if you wear two sports bras to keep anything from jiggling inappropriately. You certainly can’t do anything with weights. In college, I had the chance to join a horseback riding team for a couple of semesters. I soon realized that staying on the horse required starting some kind of fitness regimen. In the gym, I found a couple of hip abductor/adductor machines that were handy for building the thigh strength necessary to grip the horse.

The problem? I was so embarrassed that somebody might walk in front of me while I was on the machine with my legs spread that I started going to the gym the moment it opened in the morning and avoiding exercise when men were present. In this instance, modesty was literally keeping me weak. Eventually, I grew comfortable enough with my own body to exercise without worrying about other people happening to look at me. Now, I do an exercise routine that would have scandalized my old self: squats, deadlifts, and barbell rows. I have so much more energy and my mood is so much improved – plus, I can move my own furniture! But I couldn’t have got to this point without dumping the modesty doctrine. Because I couldn’t concentrate on hauling iron while worried that some perv behind me might happen to glance my way and pop his gym shorts. That’s not my job anymore. I’m not responsible for men’s souls, because I no longer think of myself as an object to be looked at and evaluated.

Backing up to before I got to college, modesty contributed to my eating disorder. How? Because I noticed that the best way to keep men from staring at my ass was not to have one. Ditto boobs. The skinnier I got, the less womanly I looked, and the more “modest” I felt, until I was 25lbs underweight. I was perpetually “fat” in my own mind – because in my own mind, the only acceptable body type was an androgynous one – one that could not possibly provoke a man to lust. I’m sure I don’t need to explain why that was a bad thing.

 Modesty taught me that I was a decoration. Everything about my life was governed by whether or not a man was watching. How I moved and what I ate or wore all depended on the male gaze. Modesty taught me that nothing I did mattered more than avoiding sexual attention. Modesty made me objectify myself. I was so aware of my own potential desirability at all times that I lost all other ways of defining myself. I couldn’t work out or get fit without worrying about attracting men. I couldn’t relax my eating habits for a moment lest my shirts start to pull a little in the chest. I couldn’t grow like a normal human adolescent because staying slim and sexless was the biggest priority in my world.

When you argue that what’s modest and what isn’t is a valid concern for women, you tell them that their appearance matters most. You objectify them. You tell them that whether or not you are sexually aroused by their actions or their dress is more important than anything they want to do or wear. You tell them that they must, at all times, be thinking about you when they are making decisions about their own lives. That’s arrogant. That’s immoral.

If you think that, as a man, you can somehow argue “objectively” about what women should or shouldn’t wear and “win” a debate fair and square, let me remind you of a few things. If a man “loses” a modesty debate, nothing about his life changes. If a man “wins” a modesty debate, nothing about his life changes. But if a woman loses a modesty debate, the entire fabric of her existence changes. If a woman loses a modesty debate, she has lost whole areas of freedom in her life. She now has more things to worry about not doing so that men will not get aroused. There is no such thing as an “objective” argument in which the stakes are astronomical for one side and nonexistent for the other. Furthermore, by even accepting modesty as a valid area of concern for women, you have accepted a premise that defines women by their looks and objectifies them. Women have already lost the moment a modesty debate begins.

Modesty made me “fat” because it defined my relationship with my body in terms of appearance. Not action. Not gratitude. Not the joy of movement. Just appearance. It also defined my relationship with men as one of predator and prey. It was my job to hide from men so that their sex drive would lie dormant, like a sleeping wolf. But if that wolf ever awakened, it was not because it had been sleeping for a long time and its circadian rhythm kicked in, or it was just naturally hungry. It was my fault because I had done something to “bait” the wolf. Just by being visibly female, or by moving in “unladylike” ways. You cannot consider women full human beings unless you recognize that their lives do not revolve around the male sex drive. Modesty is a philosophy that dehumanizes. It incites constant fear and vigilance in one sex while excusing the other of all responsibility. It’s immoral.

How Being Overly Modest Destroys Our Femininity

Modesty is a lot of things, and it is primarily a way in which we show respect for our bodies and Heavenly Father. However, over the years, as I’ve attended Firesides, Girls Camp, Youth Activities, Sunday School, etc., I occasionally heard a different message. Modesty was my responsibility to make sure the boys around me were not tempted toward immoral thoughts or actions. Now that I’m older, I’ve started hearing it even more. This is simply unacceptable

Implying that a woman’s modesty is something to be done for the benefit of men and boys is a destructive message for several reasons. Constantly telling a girl that a man’s thoughts and actions are her responsibility is doctrinally incorrect. It also translates closely to the idea that it is a woman’s responsibility to maintain the sexual standards of a relationship.

For a long time, when I would hear these things, my mind couldn’t but help think that it was somehow my fault. I clearly wasn’t a very good person, or else I wouldn’t be having men say things like this to me. My value as a daughter of God was being degraded, and instead of demanding to be treated like a human being, I shrunk back, thinking I had been the one in the wrong.

Probably one of the most concerning aspects of this mindset is it is a form of victim blaming. Women at the receiving end of verbal, physical, or sexual assault are often asked “Well, what did you do to provoke him,” “Were you asking for it,” or, one of the most common, “What were you wearing?” Last I checked, when given the commandment not to commit adultery there was no addendum that said “Unless she was dressed like a slut, then it’s totally her fault, and you’re off the hook.” Someone once told me that when you are teaching women to change what they do to prevent being assaulted or raped, what you are actually doing is saying “Make sure he assaults someone else.” You are not fixing the real problem, which is the man’s problem. Men have to exist in the world where women will have a variety of dressing habits. All of these women all are deserving of respect, and if his thoughts or actions cannot be controlled, that is his problem.

I like dressing modestly. I like other people being comfortable around me. But the real reason I want to dress modestly is because for me, it is a way of looking forward to respecting the covenants I will make in the temple. When I get dressed, I ask myself, “If I was endowed, could I wear this?”  No offense, but as a woman whose figure is somewhere between a Greek sculpture and the women they used to paint on airplanes in WWII, and legs that go to Canada, certainly dressing modest is not hottest. But my choice in clothing is not about that, nor is it about a need to hide my body. As I said at the beginning, it is an outward display of an inward commitment, one that I would like to remind certain people they are supposed to respect, too. (Yes, I’m looking at you Mr. preacher who spends the entire summer in a cut out tank top or shirtless with hot abs, women lust too...) Modesty is an important principal, but it is not one that should be taught as a scapegoat for men’s responsibility.

Modesty during our youth may be understandable if kept to a healthy limit, but let’s cut the crap… Modesty after marriage goes out the window, we as women need to allow ourselves to dress a bit sexy at home and abroad, it not only betters our self-esteem but helps us grow sexually. Wear something tight from time to time, show some cleavage your husband will not only thank you, but you’ll thank yourself.

We Are Not “The Church Lady”

Being a Christian woman, one of the most irritating stereotypes that’s perpetuated is that we’re all like Dana Carvey’s SNL character “the church lady.” Sure, some of us are. But most of us are not. God created sex, and it’s obvious how much our culture LOVES (even idolizes) sex. One way Christian women can do a better job of reflecting God to the world is by having amazing, healthy sex-lives with our husbands, and not being afraid to talk about sex, tastefully. (And I have to admit, of all the ways we can reflect God to the world, having a healthy sex-life is probably my favorite.)

Embracing Your Sexuality & Not Feeling Guilty For It

Explore and OWN your turn-ons.

So there might be some turn-ons you personally have you might feel embarrassed about or ashamed of but BIG CHANCES are you’ll be surprised how many other people might share the same “embarrassing” turn-ons as you do! Communication is crucial. It is important that you feel comfortable enough to express your sexual desires in regards to what you like, what you are willing to try, and what you are absolutely unwilling to do with your partner to maximize sexual experience and pleasure and also to explore new ways to heat up your sex life. And say you come across some a**hole who thinks you are “too freaky” or thinks you are a slut for wanting to try those things. Never put up with someone’s let downs. You FIND somebody else who is going to be the lucky bastard that landed a beautiful woman and adores you for your own open mind and salivates at the fact you actually embrace your wild side and wants to explore it with you.

Your sexual pleasure is what YOU want it to be.

It’s your body, your temple. You’re in charge of your own sexual experiences. You’re the sex goddess here and YOU have the power to choose who you want to sleep with, who you don’t want to sleep with, or if you want to have sex at all. Regardless of what you want, do it (no pun intended) for yourself. Make your own decisions. NO ONE should ever be able to take that right from you; not your religion, not our own physical disabilities, and not ever your overbearing parents.

Ladies,

I’ve noticed a disturbing trend recently of men knowing women’s bodies better than women do. Women are not taking charge of their own sexuality. For all the talk about empowerment and abandoning shame, it seems that female sexual desire is still misunderstood at best and at worst denied and repressed.

Women are out of touch with their moods, their hormones and their desires. One problem is social conditioning that is making women feel “less of a woman” to crave normal heterosexual activities (being sexually dominated, feeling vulnerable, giving in to a strong man who loves her, being submissive). Feminism is teaching women that these feelings are both harmful and unnatural conditioning from the patriarchy and meant to oppress them. It couldn’t be farther from the truth. These feelings are meant to build partnership, connection and bonding. Men feel protective, loving and caring for a woman who needs him and who lets herself be vulnerable to him. We can not connect if we have walls up everywhere. Sex is about intimacy. I know you’ve been told sex is about power.  Sex can be used for power.  Advertising uses sex for power and control over shoppers.  Couples can use sex or withholding sex as a power tool to manipulate and control their partner.  But sex is not inherently about power.  People can use sex for power.  Sex, the true nature of sex is about intimacy.   Call it making love, call it fucking, call it whatever you want, but good sex, great sex, the kind of sex we all deeply crave is not about power, but about intimacy

Women Don’t Know Their Bodies Because We’re Ashamed To Show Them Off

I’ve described how women are out of touch with their hormones and out of touch with their emotions, and I’ve described how feminism is creating an environment that makes women feel shame and guilt about their biology.  Feminism diminishes the importance of femininity and female biology in it’s drive for equality, but when we erase our femininity we erase the heart and core of our nature.  Has no one told you how wonderful it is to be a woman? Have you never witnessed the power and wonder and beauty of women who love themselves as deeply as they love others and how that plays out in the world? It’s magical. It is romance. It is miraculous.  It is within you.

To claim your undeniable power as a woman you need to embrace your emotions, your biology, your intuition, your body and your sexuality. It’s not just about loving your body at any size and fighting to redefine beauty standards, truly loving your body means taking responsibility for it, listening to it and giving it what it needs.

To be truly empowered, you need to embrace your sexuality. To embrace your sexuality, you need to know your body.  You need to explore visually, tactilely. You need to learn what feels good, how your body responds, how to control your desires and you need to learn how to lose control. Yes, I’m telling you that you need to masturbate.  You need to masturbate alone at night, in the day. You need to masturbate int he dark and you need to masturbate in front of a mirror.  Not only that, you need to masturbate using only what God gave you: two hands and a delicious imagination.  Get rid of the the toys and vibrators.  Your have everything you need to get off, except apparently patience, but you can learn that.  After you masturbate, think about what turned you on, what felt good.  Would you be able to describe that with a lover?

Vibrators produce an unnatural stimulation.  Not only does it overemphasize your physical reactions giving intense physical pleasure but it gets in the way of you knowing your body. If you masturbate with a plastic toy, how will you know about the physical signs of your approaching orgasm? In addition to increased wetness, you will feel swelling, thickening, muscle contracting.  Knowing your physical reactions to desire and arousal are as important as knowing if you like tall dark and handsome or teddy bear built men.  Sex is one of the most exciting things we can do. We are all, every single one of us, capable of having sex and of feeling desire and reaching orgasm. Don’t you want to know how everything works and how to create that magic?

Vibrators also reduce your need for mental stimulation through fantasy because it provides such intense physical stimulation that it can build your sexual response faster than through fantasy alone. But fantasy is tremendously important for women.  Our mental arousal matches our physical arousal.  Not only that, but you can become physically dependent on your vibrator.   Just as men can become addicted to porn and struggle to maintain erections without a certain visual stimulus and specific physical touch that only he can replicate, so can women become addicted to the intense, rapid and unnatural mechanical stimulation of a vibrator.  Your mind is your biggest sexual organ.  Use it.

Our nature has given us everything we need to thrive.  We need to respect it, study it, embrace it instead of hiding from it, bulldozing it and medicating it. It’s time to fucking own it!

Your body. Your feminine body. Why have you rejected it? Why are you uncomfortable in it? For all the body acceptance campaigns I see, to me they look like body rejection campaigns.  We are not accepting our bodies when we normalize being unhealthy. We are not accepting our bodies when we insist that it be made square to hide our natural curves or when we parade topless for a protest! We are not accepting our bodies when we emulate the mannerisms of men to compete with them.  We are rejecting our bodies when we do not invest in our health. We are rejecting our bodies when we do not enjoy how we are made and use our gifts to express ourselves, engage with others and achieve our goals.

 

Your body is amazing. You should taking care of it.

Men, in general, seem more in touch with their physical selves. If they strength train or participate in sports they often find satisfaction in pushing their bodies to the limits, testing what they are capable of.  As men, their bodies are physically stronger and larger than most women. They use their bodies to protect, to fight and to build. Learn to know and use your body the same way, doing so will open the doors to unlocking your full feminine potential.





Sexual shame hinders women in far too many ways. It's a difficult beast to tackle, as it assumes so many nuanced, subtle forms in our daily lives. To be sure, some forms of sexual shame are blatant, but many of them are so deeply engrained that we scarcely even notice them.

 

Societal shame. Although the concept of women as independent, sexual beings is beginning to gain traction, there are still many people who hold "loose" women in low opinion. Many times, people who feel this way project a facade of concern. They'll say things like, "That girl needs to get some self-respect." Women are perfectly capable of deciding what to do or not do with their own sex lives. I mean, really, men have had this right throughout all of history. No man has ever been asked to "prove" their virginity before marriage in the same ways that women have. For centuries, it was expected that married men would have mistresses, and that unmarried men would have sex. The women they had sex with, however, ended up with bad reputations while the men got off scot-free. Unfortunately, this is still the case in many ways still today. 

 

Shame from family members. Many of us have been made to feel bad or ashamed about sex by our families. Maybe your parents are from a very different generation. Maybe they're highly religious. Maybe they're conservative. Maybe they're some combination of all of these things. If any of these are the case, your family might have some very...ah, specific and poignant opinions about sex. As such, it's important to remember that your parents' opinions are far from the ultimate truth. There are facts they just don't know, and you probably know better than they do when it comes to sex. Girls often deal with a heavier dose of shame from family than boys do. Many old-fashioned/religious/conservative parents feel they can shame their daughters into remaining "pure," only participating in acceptable kinds of sexual activity. The only kind of acceptable sexual activity for many such parents, however, involves a cisgender man and a cisgender woman having straightforward, vanilla sex under the sacred bonds of matrimony. You are not obligated to remain bound by this even though you may feel you are. You do not owe "purity" to your parents


 

 While Christianity might look down on the below outfits, I and a majority of women consider these outfits to be completely reasonable, showing a bit of sexy, yet modest still.

 

 

 

Comments

Trisha said…
Thanks for writing this! As the mother of only daughters I find it frustrating when my kids are taught by well meaning adults that it is their responsibility to control the thoughts of others. That is a Muslim way of thinking. They tell their women they have to cover completely so that they don’t “make” someone else think inappropriate things. I am sick of it.
Anonymous said…
I think it doesent matter which Christian religion you belong to, they all treat women as "A sin waiting to happen" so to speak. It drives me insane the disrespect and psychologically damaging messages they are sending our children. I think I've heard horror stories from just about every religion about how modesty shamers made a little kid or young teenager break down and cry because they wore a skirt that was 2 inches above the knees.

You cant in good conscience think that God would be so mindful of what women wear and not of what men wear, and that we are responsible for keeping their minds clean. Ridiculous, flat out BS in my opinion.
Melissa said…
Whitney, Trisha, and Anonymous I whole heartedly agree 100%, we can not as women and mothers allow ourselves and our children to be treated as nothing more than mere sexual objects, while the men share no responsibility at all.

Our family is all LDS (Mormons), our daughter(12 years old) last year went on a youth boating trip to a nearby lake wherein all the girls wore 1 piece swimsuits, but mandatorily were told they must wear shorts and a t-shirt to cover up, all while the guys were in swim trunks and no t-shirts... My daughter god bless her heart didn't realize it had to be a 1 piece and had no shorts so she just wore the bathing suit. The harassment and ridicule from the leaders was just demoralizing, she came home in tears that the bishopric had more or less treated her like a slut who was led by the devil all because she wore a bathing suit...

On Sunday they then had her and us called into the bishops (equivalent of a pastor)'s office to discus the "sin". They went on for 10 minutes on how her poor morals and lack of virtue may have permanently damaged the minds of the young men because she wore a simple bathing suit, and that it was entirely her fault and her job to protect their minds from sin. To my shock she fired back at them saying "don't you realize girls think about sex too? is it fair the boys where all half naked?" I had never been so proud of her in my life. I then politely went off on them about how sexist their behavior was towards women and how it hurts these young girls mentally for decades to come.

The morals taught are so out of date, specially within our religion. I agree that women have a responsibility to be virtuous and morally clean for both themselves and others, but that doesn't rest all on their shoulders, its irresponsible and dangerous to promote.
Sky said…
Great post Whitney! Always love you're Facebook articles :)

I also think your perspective is spot on, too much of todays teachings put all the emphasis on the importance of dressing morally on only the girls and women, Christianity in general is completely oblivious that it destroys their healthy view of themselves and sex in general.

I had never thought about this until I had a baby, but I fully intend to help teach my daughters teaching and understanding when it comes to modesty and sexuality, Christianity has it right that modesty is good, but they take it to such an extreme that becomes unhealthy to young girls, we as parents need to make sure these teachings don't destroy our childrens self-worth. I had a girl I taught in Sunday school last year who shared a story about how the leaders had ridiculed her for wearing sleeveless shirts to church, the shame and sadness in her face just broke my heart that she had been called out in front of everyone over the sleeve being an inch too short.

Melissa, your story is oh so common in our church sadly. I too am lds and have seen so many poor girls mistreated for simply wearing something that showed part of their shoulder, or for wearing a dress slightly above the knee. I remember when I was a teen a girl had worn a sleeveless dress into a joint meeting of the youth and the leaders flat out called her out on the spot as if she had murdered someone in front of everyone. I'd never seen someone so red in the face, she cried as she was sent home to change, I don't think she ever came back to our ward again because of the slut shaming for just showing her shoulders.

Nobody is blind enough to think "well its what god wants us to do", yet guys have no responsibilities because girls don't think sexual thoughts and might be tempted, that's ridiculous, and yet it is taught non stop in all denominations... Melissa you're especially right about ours, our leaders have flat out said throughout the years if a guy see's your belly you need to repent, President Kimball taught in conference that he would rather see his daughter or any woman killed or murdered instead of being raped, because after they are raped or have sex they are similar to used gum and have no worth. ITS EVIL! It led to hundreds of young teens committing suicide because they were taught by their leader they had no self worth or value in gods eyes anymore.

We as parents have to do a better job at stepping in and making sure our children are taught not to be ashamed of their bodies and that showing a bit of skin (moderately/reasonably) isn't going to send you to hell. If my daughters leaders ever call her out on something like this she has my permission to tell them talk to her dad, so I can shove their perspective on morality so far up their rear ends they'll never bitch about it again...
Melissa said…
AND THE DAD OF THE YEAR AWARD GOES TO... DRUM ROLL PLEASE... SKY!

way to stick up for your daughter and wife! half the guys I know are too stuck up to see the importance of having a healthy view of femininity. The "Rape" teaching definitely infuriates me too sky, my cousin took her own life a year after hearing that talk, her bishop told her that no man would want to be with someone who had no worth in gods eyes anymore. I love how Elizabeth Smart has been calling out the leaders lately for the degrading teachings on women and their sexuality.

I agree that if parents took a more active role in sexuality and morality teachings that our children would not feel so ashamed about themselves during their teenage years, and when married. It took me nearly ten years to outgrow the anti-sexual mindset brainwashed into us as kids. My husband and I both refuse to wear our temple garments on date night anymore, we would get home and go to get it on but just seeing ourselves and each other in them immediately kills the mood... Instead I wear something with no shoulders and a lot of cleavage, its had huge impacts on our sex life and my mental ability to want to be sexual. Our 2nd counselor caught us one night without them and told us they were only to not be worn when we play sports, shower/swim, or when we're going to get wet, I told him I was going to get wetter throughout the night (in my yaya region) and that ended the conversation pretty quickly hahahaha.
Ramona said…
Husband of the year indeed! Its good to see a guy stepping up for his kid like that. I wish more men used their critical thinking skills to see the sexism in religion is anything but Christ like.

Melissa said…
https://youngmormonfeminists.org/2014/02/08/the-cult-of-mormon-modesty/

A great article for LDS couples who struggle with modesty, I think it applies to Christianity in general as well.
lacey said…
Growing up in the Jehovas Witness religion I can share your pain, except times it by ten! we weren't even allowed to show our ankles or elbows! hows that for modesty?! it took years to overcome the self loathing taught by evil men.
Lisa said…
We're catholic and its just as bad in our church, maybe not quite the shoulder issues like the Mormon church, but its bad enough just about every girl gets sent home crying at one point or another because they wore a skirt an inch or two too high. It messes up the childrens heads really bad, it makes me cry every time for these poor girls.
Molly said…
It's that bad everywhere, all Christian churches that we've attended are focused purely on female chastity and morals, none of the responsibility is on the men or boys. Bull crap... It's sad because it shows just how out tune these churches and men are with god.
Sheila Martin said…
We're Methodist and its not quite as extreme with our church, but its enough to sit our children down and teach them about modesty in a way that contradicts the churches teachings, the way they present it is dangerous for the psyche of young girls. It places all duty on the girl and none on the guy, girls think about sex too, but these mid evil pastors seem to think we don't.
Anonymous said…
This may be a bit off topic, but with all the feminist movements lately I cant help but ask...
What are some of the most sexist issues in each of your churches that just seem off par with the gospel of Christ? this has been an ongoing question I've had throughout my life when it comes to equality in gods eyes. We're always taught god is no respecter of persons, yet the sexism in Christianity always contradict how women are treated in church.
Lisa said…
In the Catholic church women are excluded from all ceremonies other than marriage, baptism, and communion, dress standards are actually fairly even in how its preached, but when it comes to enforcing the standards the girls are severely punished, yet if the guy breaks the rule it is mostly ignored. Women are to stay silent in meetings and sermons, we are also to be completely submissive to our husband even if our husband is living sinfully. I cant honestly say I feel these teachings come from god or his holy spirit, they degrade women as having no voice and no choice of their own.
lacey said…
Jehovas Witnesses women and girls have 0 voice or privelidges, the women must cover up down to the ankle, at the neck, and to the elbows. We are to be 100% loyal and devoted to the men and not to god. Men are allowed to beat their wives and children if they feel they are out of line, but women cant do the same if the men are sinful. If a woman complains about her husbands sins she is outcast and abandoned, but the same doesent apply to the men. ITS ABUSSIVE AND DEMEANING!!!!!!!!!!!! I left the day I turned 18.
Sheila said…
Methodists apply fairly modest standards to both sexes fortunately. The only sexism I’ve noticed in our religion is women are promised lesser blessings in heaven. Other than that its preached fairly evenly. I guess I should feel lucky compared to the rest of you. My deepest sympathies.
Sky said…
Growing up LDS I never really noticed any sexism until recently reflecting. As I mentioned in my previous post above, girls are 100% responsible for dressing modest and the boys have none. Girls are treated as if they murdered someone when they wear a shirt or dress an inch or two too short. Women are to be submissive to the men as the men are submissive to god (which I guess is semi reasonable-sort of but not really). Historically women were treated like dirt, only good for sex & babies. The prophet would ask women who were already married to marry him polygomously, and when they declined he would either call them whores in the newspapers for lying about the proposals, or send her husband to Europe on a mission so he could then seduce her (which he did many times as shown in his own journals). They would then sell the womans property and stick her in a small house with other women. The men used her funds for himself. It was blatant and pure manipulation, they were allowed to commit adultery saying god allowed it and had given them permission to sleep with any mans wife, murder, steal, etc. It kills me inside knowing so many women have had their lives destroyed by a supposed prophet of god.

Women are promised the same blessings in heaven with 1 major exception, our church preaches that although polygamy doesn’t currently occur & is not practiced, it is taught it will be practiced in heaven and for a man and wife to enter heaven they will need to be in a polygamous marriage… AKA men get many wives, women get 1 husband. This is the part that makes me sick to my stomach, just thinking about it makes me cringe, not to mention my wife is as jealous a person as it gets, to think the only way to enter heaven would be for her to have to share me is uncomprehendable and wrong. I personally don’t believe it to be true in any way shape or form, but it is what’s stated in our scriptures and by our prophet/apostles currently.
Melissa said…
Sky you about covered it all, I think the biggest part about our LDS teachings that bothers me is being treated like physical objects, only good for having sex and making babies. The polygamy doctrine is extremely troubling for all of us women, though it is not taught publically it came up recently and the apostles confirmed it is still a true teaching that polygamy is required to enter heaven. I can’t even begin to comprehend it so I try not to focus on it as it casts major doubts about the men who lead our church. Our church has grown over the years and is now more respectable, but we cant hide the facts anymore of how the men actually viewed woman (property more than a person). Our church goes to great lengths to cover these facts up, but the cats out of the bag so to speak, so much wrong! So much inequality. Its painful to say the least…
Felicia said…
Baptists are equal, plain and simple! Our African American women are so strong willed that we refuse to let a man treat us with disrespect, uh uh honey it aint happinin.
Anonymous said…
EQUAL in all aspects except in our dress standards. Dress standards can be ultra strict or semi lenient but it really depends where you live and who your pastor is. They are at least respectful when women get called out for inappropriate dress.
Tricia said…
So it seems like every Christian church has this issue of overstepping its boundaries and suppressing women and treating them disrespectfully... I love god and Christ with all my heart, but how can I follow my pastor when I know the things they are preaching is not from god? its not like everything they preach is bad, but when they expect 100% adherence to everything they preach it messes with my faith in them. Anybody have any suggestions?
Sky said…
For me it comes down to prayer, study, and using my critical thinking skills. All religions encourage its members to not take the teachers words as truth, but to pray to god and know for ourselves, that's the simple way to sort out whats true and should be followed, or what is from their own ideas and should be ignored.

It's really easy for us to justify sinful messages or actions of others, rationalizing that "god has his own reasons for these men sinning or teaching false principles, but what most Christians (myself included) tend to do is forget to search and ask for ourselves. Those who are honest with themselves will quickily find that most of the principles taught are true, but these teachers are human and prone to error, thus we need to sort through what to follow and what to ignore.
Anonymous said…
Well said Sky! never take information as fact unless you search it through for yourself! I tend to do the same and it has lead me to a lot less heart ache and frustration when it comes to following gods word.

I am curious how Lacey you dealt with Jehovas witness teachings and managed to believe it as a kid. Same with you Sky and Melissa? how do you come to terms with such twisted teachings with the polygamy stuff? I don't want to turn this into a religious debate but can you honestly say god would allow a prophet to do those kinds of things and still be a prophet or lead an entire church for that matter? it boggles my mind.
Sky said…
You have every right to question it honestly, in fact only a fool would ignore the facts and still follow these men blindly knowing they lie, cheat, steal, commit adultery, kill, etc. (by their fruits ye shall know them). I don't so much get angry with our church founders, but with our current leaders for selling us such bold face lies about our past. It lead me to question the integrity and truth of our church recently.

For me (and most Christians) when we find out our church is a total fraud you have 3 options:
1-follow the church still even though its claims, doctrine, promises about heaven, are wrong, but doing so will help us maintain friends and family that we're scared to lose.
2-Understand that its bogus, but choose to sort the good from the evil and follow advice after praying for ourselves, and ignoring the incorrect teachings. (what I do since every other church has the same issues to some extent).
3-leave it bitterly and search for some better religion that follows god and Christ the way the scriptures teach they should.

Each person has their own reasoning to stay or leave, but whats most important is we do not feel shamed for believing what we do if god has confirmed to us what we know is right. Have confidence in your knowledge and attitude about following truth rather lies. Our church has always taught us to do what is right, no matter how hard it is and the consequences, and that Is what I try to do, do what is right, even if it means not believing what is always being taught by the men who frequently lie/manipulate from the pulpit. Just my two cents. hope that makes sense?
Anonymous said…
Melissa + Sky I am also LDS and am also having issues with modesty. How do you both deal with temple garnments? I'm curious from a male and other females perspective how you feel about using them 24/7 and how they affect your relationship with your spouse?
Sky said…
I think the temple garments are a good idea in concept, but in application it really destroys any physical desire to be intimate or want to be intimate, theres nothing attractive about them, they don't fit any normal man or woman, for me they literally chafe like crazy and destroy my crotch area, my wife hates that they ride up on her and sag down on the hips, everyone has the same complaint.

My personal use of them is sporadic, They are made to remember temple promises of loyalty to god as a couple, meaning we never cheat on our spouse, we're promised protection spiritually. So basically I believe couples should wear them at times when they're apart from each other, such as a spouse on a business trip, or being out with friends, or situations where they may be tempted to cheat. Otherwise I don't wear them when I'm with my wife I don't wear them (seeing you couldn't cheat on your spouse right in front of them haha). basically since they physically cause my body harm I don't use them other than when I'm away from her. I can definitely tell they've impacted her too and surprised her sexually. They definitely harm marriages when used 24/7. She doesent use them at home nor do I, nor at the beach, nor on vacation in hot muggy places, nor while I mow the lawn (otherwise I'd pass out from heat.

Its all about understanding the purpose of the clothing, use them when your away from your spouse so your not tempted to betray them, but when your with them get those things off ASAP, that's my opinion... I know most other LDS couples are the same, even bishopric, relief society members, and other leaders all do the same. I was chatting with LDS family counseling last year about them and they actually encouraged me to stop wearing them for a while in order to allow a healthy sexual mindset to emerge from years of repression and lack of sex drive.
Melissa said…
The first night I slept without garments on, I cried. I was wearing a tank top and sleep shorts. My husband of more than a decade was able to curl up against me and slide his hand up my belly and hold my breast with an was we had never known. I hadn't realize till that moment that we had been sleeping with the church in our bed for our entire marriage. We had a literal physical barrier between is from our wedding night. It was heart breaking to realize what we had lost and liberating to be free of the garments. There was no love lost. I do not miss them.

Well . . .

There is one drawback . . .

It was expensive to stop wearing garments.

I now love buying underthings, a lot of bras and panties (oh how I love to buy panties!). Every style, every fabric, every color. Every color except white.

Stopping wearing them other than at church and the temple was the best decision we ever made for our marriage, it allowed us to feel confident about our bodies and actually think sexual thoughts about each other. :)

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